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Should birth and rape really be two words conjoined together?  Do you feel this is an accurate description on the topic described?

 

Birth Rape Is Real

 

Read the link and tell me what you think about this.

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I felt violated during both of my birth experiences (as nice as the birth attendants were).  It's  kind of hard not to with where the birth canal is located.

 

Rape is a strong word.  Someone can go to jail for rape.  This article cites the experiences with a midwife who had poor bedside manner.  I think sometimes birth attendants will say something to provoke anger and the adreneline rush that goes with it to expedite or improve the birth process.  I wouldn't call it rape in most cases.

Totally agree!  

 

Although I'll add that by the time I'd got to the point where I was in the hospital to deliver, I'd long since lost any sense of being intruded upon as far as internal exams etc go. 

 

I had a membrane sweep with both kids - it wasn't pleasant but I knew what it was and why it was being done - because I had good doctors who explained everything before acting.

 



kimpsbl2 said:

I felt violated during both of my birth experiences (as nice as the birth attendants were).  It's  kind of hard not to with where the birth canal is located.

 

Rape is a strong word.  Someone can go to jail for rape.  This article cites the experiences with a midwife who had poor bedside manner.  I think sometimes birth attendants will say something to provoke anger and the adreneline rush that goes with it to expedite or improve the birth process.  I wouldn't call it rape in most cases.

Rape is defined as sexual abuse by force without conset.  Birth obviously takes into play with our sexual organs.  I think women who are violated during labor and delivery have every right to consider it "birth rape".  Medical intervention  to save the life of mother and child aside, every woman has the right to say 'no'.  If I tell my nurse, doctor, midwife, 'no', and then find their hand or whatever in my private area that is no different than a forced sexual assault/rape.  The hard part is "intent", but I don't think intent is relevant in rape cases.  In other words, did the perpetrator do it for pleasure, or did they get pleasure from degrading the woman and so on and so forth. 

At any rate, I do think it's real, one work is  more appropriate than two, and it is a sad sad situation. 

This is one of the comments, and I really feel this way. This is usually something that has to be done to finish or even start the birth. They are medical and if you experienced it then it should be dealt with that way and with the medical board. Thats just my thoughts...

 

Honestly, I don't consider those (terrible, traumatic) experiences as sexual. They are medical and I believe that they are medical misconduct and I would bring forth legal action to ensure that that sort of misbehavior did not happen again. I am not attempting to discount the pain and trauma that these women have gone through and I can see how PTSD could occur afterward, but I personally wouldn't put the word rape on the situation, just as a midwife who inappropriately ignores a patients' request is not a sex offender. There are patient rights for a reason and need to be requested though.

Assault and abuse can certainly take place during birth.  I experienced both at the hospital when I had my first son, and it's a huge reason why I went with the midwifery model/ homebirth with my second.

 

In my opinion, if a woman says it's rape, regarding childbirth?  Then it's rape.  Personally I don't believe I was birthraped, bad as the experience was, but I am not every woman and every woman is not me.

I agree with Janice.


IMO, yes you may feel violated, angry and hurt but I doubt anyone who has encountered rape in the real legal sense would call this it.
I think someone used the word "rape" in another thread when we were discussing bad birth experiences. There was quite a backlash...The word and can make many people offended when not used in reference to sexual assault. I didn't look up the meaning of the word, but I have heard it used in other contexts...basically meaning that someone really got taken advantage of, was completely humiliated, or had something important taken from them etc....Some women feel completely helpless during their birth experience. They feel the medical community has complete control over what happens to their bodies. Often times, things are done to them or their babies that they would not have wanted, if they knew they had a choice. Sometimes they are not given a choice due to a doctor's fear of lawsuits, insurance issues, hospital policy or laws that can vary from state to state, etc.  



Alicia (Alsan) said:

IMO, yes you may feel violated, angry and hurt but I doubt anyone who has encountered rape in the real legal sense would call this it.

 

 

Exactly.  A gynecologic/obstetrical procedure may induce stress or flashbacks to someone who has been sexually assaulted, but to call a routine medical procedure rape is absurd.  Is an inmate who is strip searched being raped?  Is someone who is in cardiac arrest and being hit on the chest to restart the heart being battered and assaulted??  Is a burn victim having banadages changed being tortured?  I mean, come on!

There are medical professionals out there that could be gentler, more patient, give better explainations, etc.  But rape?  When something goes wrong during a birth, shall we send the mother an engraved announcement requesting her permission to proceed with something that might be a bit touchy while her baby asphyxiates?  I seriously doubt that any medical professional who deals with female organs and genitialia day in and day out is gaining sexual or psychological pleasure from yet another vaginal exam.  That's what rape is, as someone else pointed out - deriving pleasure from a forced sexual act.  It's not sexual, it's not deriving pleasure.  Even forced is a shaky term, considering the patient is generally in a medical environment because they expect medical intervention.

 

My mother went into cardiac arrest a few months ago and was taken by ambulance to the ER.  Anything at that point in time they needed to do was fine with her, me, and everyone else.  We just wanted her alive.  I'm willing to wager that 99.9% of medical professionals do what they do to help the patient. 

 

Childbirth is not fun, pretty, or easy.  If you do not want to be touched intimately by strangers, stay at home with a midwife who will explain everything he/she does in detail and asks your permission first.  Simple.

I'm sorry, but a life saving procedure during cardiac arrest isn't quite the same as being conscious and having things done to you against your will.  I, myself, have never experienced this, but I do know people who have and it is as traumatic as a sexual assault.  I find it very disheartening that people, women in fact, would discount their feelings so easily.  Being a "medical proffessional" doesn't mean they are all knowing, and it doeswn't give them the right to do anything they deem "neccessary" without permission.  Period.  When you under the care of a hospital, doctors, and nursing staff, everything they suggest must have you or a loved one's permission prior to the execution of said procedure.  If I say, " I do not want to have my water broken", and there is no stress to myself or my child, and a doctor walks in and shoves their hand in my vagina to do "what's best," that IS a serious problem and has the right to be called rap IMO. 

Macaela said:



Alicia (Alsan) said:

IMO, yes you may feel violated, angry and hurt but I doubt anyone who has encountered rape in the real legal sense would call this it.

 

 

Exactly.  A gynecologic/obstetrical procedure may induce stress or flashbacks to someone who has been sexually assaulted, but to call a routine medical procedure rape is absurd.  Is an inmate who is strip searched being raped?  Is someone who is in cardiac arrest and being hit on the chest to restart the heart being battered and assaulted??  Is a burn victim having banadages changed being tortured?  I mean, come on!

There are medical professionals out there that could be gentler, more patient, give better explainations, etc.  But rape?  When something goes wrong during a birth, shall we send the mother an engraved announcement requesting her permission to proceed with something that might be a bit touchy while her baby asphyxiates?  I seriously doubt that any medical professional who deals with female organs and genitialia day in and day out is gaining sexual or psychological pleasure from yet another vaginal exam.  That's what rape is, as someone else pointed out - deriving pleasure from a forced sexual act.  It's not sexual, it's not deriving pleasure.  Even forced is a shaky term, considering the patient is generally in a medical environment because they expect medical intervention.

 

My mother went into cardiac arrest a few months ago and was taken by ambulance to the ER.  Anything at that point in time they needed to do was fine with her, me, and everyone else.  We just wanted her alive.  I'm willing to wager that 99.9% of medical professionals do what they do to help the patient. 

 

Childbirth is not fun, pretty, or easy.  If you do not want to be touched intimately by strangers, stay at home with a midwife who will explain everything he/she does in detail and asks your permission first.  Simple.

I'm in the category of while some birth expierences are great, I know there are others that for some reason or the other are not.  I disagree with the terminolgy of "rape" by the legal sense but can see how implication of "rape" is there is some expierences.  I can understand having PTSD, at anytime your body/mind endures more than customary I believe PTSD can be expierenced.   I know during two of my pregnancy, 1 which was etopic I had to have a trans-vaginal ultrasound.  If you have never had the expierence, thank the good Lord.  I was in the ER is more pain than I have ever felt before and they sent me to X-ray.  Once there I learned the harsh truth of what exactly that procedure was.  When I seen the size of that wand and learned exactly where she was going to put it, OMG just does not cover what went through my mind.  Because I was already in pain, that was an extremely painful "violation" (or at least I thought so then)  So I can understand the implied definition of rape but just not the legal crime of rape.  I do feel for those women who have a bad expierence and do feel that they might have a compliant for a medical board but just not a action of criminal magnitude.  I know this post is a little all over the place so for that I apologize.    

Ok, ladies usually I would stay far away from this sort of category but after my experience in my own two children being born (1st in hospital/ 2nd water birth in a natural birth center) and after the class I took this weekend (Perinatal chiropractic care) I have to point out some things.

 

1.  When you have a MEDICAL birth please understand this is a MEDICAL procedures and all medical procedures are invasive.  When you are in a hospital there is NOTHING natural in the way you are allowed to labor or birth.  You are at the CONVENIENCE and MERCY of the MEDICAL doctor. 

 

I am NOT saying you are at fault for feeling let down, violated or ever depressed.  But, I want you all to realize the process of LABOR and BIRTH at a hospital is NOT for the benefit of YOU, the Mother or for YOUR baby!  It is a procedure in which the OB has to be able to get your baby out alive and to make sure you don't hold the doctor liable in terms of a law suite for anything. This is evident as soon as the staff lays you on your back for hours while trying to pull out a baby from you closed off pelvis. 

If you disagree with my statements here I would urge you to PLEASE rent the movie "The business of being born."  In this documentary of our current Medical birth system there are several OB/GYN interns/students asked "how many natural births have to witnessed?"  I believe all of them said NONE.  Birth is taught as a procedure, pregnancy is taught as a medical condition.  \

It is NOT taught as an amazing experience in life where a woman is allowed to grow and bond with the life she will bring into the world. 

I unfortunately am NOT surprised woman suffer PTSD from Medical births. Please get help if you feel like you are traumatized.  Go find groups of woman like la leche league and if you don't know where to look please ask ME and I will find the resources for you!

I have had 5 babies come out of my vagina. None of them did I have the same experience. I had my water broken by the Dr with all 5. With one I had the vacuum to turn him and help him out. I've had hands up there, stitches, whatever, with the exception of a C section I've had it I'm sure. There were times I was embarrassed or uncomfortable but the Dr has one goal in mind to get the baby out. In some experience could there have been more time or a better way? Probably. Sometimes the Dr was rushed for office hours or other mothers delivering, sometimes the Dr was worried about liability if something went wrong. Sometimes the Dr was great other times not so much. With the 5 I had 5 different Drs.

On the other hand, I have been raped. When I was sixteen, a coworker a few years older, someone I considered a friend - we were not dating. It was my first time and has fundamentally changed who I am. Over 20 hrs later still rarely a day passes that it doesn't come into my mind at some point. It has affected my relationships, my self esteem. It was the defining moment in my life.


I am sorry if some people feel violated, ashamed, upset, whatever. There have been times I thought "you're going to do (or are doing) WHAT?!" I've also had the transvaginal ultrasound several times for ovarian problems, it's not at all pleasant. I am not trying to discount those feelings. But no one will ever convice me they are the same thing. They are not. Come up with a different word, it's not rape.

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